In the comments at my last post about breast appreciation, Witchy-woo told me about an article, Women and Their Illegal Breasts, and it got me thinking about masturbation. Read the article first. It's not too long, and it's very compelling. In a nut-shell, Kirsten Anderberg has "figured out that the reason women cannot wear their breasts, is so corporations can have the monopoly on breasts and can sell them back to us." But what I'm focusing on here is the several episodes she relates in which the sight of bare breasts resulted in men immediately jerking off in the bushes.
As I said in the comments,
the article made me feel really sad, pit in the stomach sad, and really fortunate to live where I live. It was a "my pain's not like hers" kinda feeling. In Ontario we can walk around topless, thanks to Gwen Jacobs, and I've been topless on my street gardening, sunbathing, taking out the garbage, with absolutely no ill effects. I go to a yearly music festival and regularly swim naked in the lake without incident. Guys sometimes join us, but nobody jerks off in the bushes. As far as I know, they at least make it to the porta-potties.
The article also makes me think of the flasher/voyeur as male. If I see a man naked, he'll be charged as a flasher. If a man sees me naked, he'll be charged as a voyeur. I suppose a penis is a threat when displayed because of the fists that might come with the territory. But do we give it too much power?
The article also makes me think of the Cynics of ancient Greece who believed that the dog's life is the way to go. Dogs are happy all the time! So they'd defecate, copulate and masturbate in the middle of town, just like dogs do. It's not my cup of tea in practice, but that kind of freedom is enticing to me. (I'd just hope they poop 'n' scoop.)
What is it about a stranger masturbating nearby that provokes a pit in my stomach level of disgust or horror? I'm not convinced it's fear of rape. If a guy was thinking about raping me, would he quietly jerk off in the bushes first? It's worse than someone horking or blowing their nose or even peeing near me, the sight of which doesn't disturb me so long as I don't get any on me. So it's not just about escaping bodily fluids. It's almost on par with someone defecating near me. I know we all do it, but I just don't want to see it. But I think it's still worse.
A friend of mine went to see Nashville Pussy, a band with a topless, female bass player. My friend remarked to the guy next to her, "She's hot, eh?" He nodded in agreement. Then she noticed he was pulling his pudding right there in front of the mosh pit! She surreptitiously navigated away from him. My guy's reaction: "If someone did that in front of me, I think I'd want to beat him up a little." It'll typically get someone arrested, like Paul Reubens, and probably provoke a few assault charges. But I don't think it's merely penis handling that annoys us.
I discovered I have the same reaction whether the wanker is a grown man or a little girl, so it's not even a matter of an exposed penis being frightening or messy. I have a friend whose 4-year-old daughter would "squeeze her legs together" whenever she was bored. I found it more than just a bit disconcerting. I was sitting on her couch once, talking to my friend, with the girl beside me. I looked next to me, and she was all red in the face, writhing and puffing, with an arm between her tightly clasped legs. My gut reaction was to bolt away screaming. But I held back to be polite and silently beckoned an explanation from my friend. She instructed me to just ignore her.
"Just ignore it," is a commonly misused behaviourist technique. If a person or pet is exhibiting a behaviour, it will decrease when ignored only if attention to the behaviour is the only thing reinforcing it. Masturbation is self-reinforcing. I suggested that she might tell her that her leg squeezing game is a private thing to do, and should just be played when she's alone in her bedroom.
Part of it is a distaste with people out of control. Few of us are in control when on a focused journey to orgasm. And even the idea that a desire must be quenched immediately is unsettling. If I need to pee and I'm in the woods, far from a washroom, I'll go behind a bush. There's only so long I can physically hold it. But if I'm feeling horny, I should be able to control that urge indefinitely. I even hear an internal judge sounding off when people complain that they're going to die if they don't eat right this minute. I want to tell them to get a hold of themselves and act civilized, for heaven sakes! Since we have big brains, we should be able to stay in control of our faculties at all times. Yet I don't have the same problem with public drunkenness.
Forty years ago, the sight of a black man marrying a white woman disturbed our society. Twenty years ago, the sight of two men kissing enraged the public. Is discrete public masturbation just another socially constructed act we find vile today, but will roll our eyes at years from now? Is the act itself intrinsically harmful or immoral, or is my reaction a product of a repressed culture.
When I think of the freedom-loving Cynics just looking for some happiness, it doesn't seem as horrifying. Yet in some ways it was worse. Diogenes, for instance, chose to masturbate in the Agora, the location of political, commercial and religious activity. His decision to eat there also shocked the public. He had another agenda beyond merely satiating all urges as they arise. He wanted to shock the citizens into awareness in order to get them to question their feelings of shamefulness.
I wonder to what extent the idea of that shame, the sinfulness of masturbation, plays into my repulsed reactions to it in public places. I think the concept of sinfulness is just silly, but some part of me that my reason can't reach might be hanging on to that early indoctrination by the church. If I chanced on two people having sex in public, that might embarrass me, but I wouldn't be horrified by it. Sex isn't ingrained in me as a sin to the extent masturbation is. My parents even had sex and joked about sex, but nobody in my house talked about auto-gratification. Ever.
For centuries, until about 200 years ago, it was commonly believed that sperm was the essence of life. People thought that men planted seeds in women like they plant seeds in the dirt. Women were just fertile or barren soil; men's seed held every bit of the being to be produced. It didn't occur to them that female mammals have eggs inside them. Why would it? Every drop of spunk was a bunch of potential lives just needing some good ground to grow in. So, masturbation, homosexuality, and sex with barren women were all akin to murder. Don't go spilling your seed willy-nilly; you're killing people! We know better now, but thousands of years of belief in the evils of masturbation aren't going to leave us in a few generations spent wavering in and out of enlightenment.
So, if it's just religious propaganda that gets me flustered at the sight of independent carnal fulfillment, can I just ignore it and it will go away? I ignored the passages about fornication and never looked back (except to reminisce). The feelings of disgust tell me I'm more than a dog. I'm civilized. But I've never cared to be better than the animals. And I like to think that I can decide for myself whether to uphold social constructs based on individual merits, not popular opinion. Perhaps further contemplation on the topic will diminish that chill down my back at the thought of strangers wrestling with their naught bits in my periphery. But rational thought isn't always able to create an emotional following. Intellectually, I think eating meat is morally corrupt, but even Fast Food Nation didn't reduce my desire to savour dead animals in my mouth. I'm still working on that one. But there may yet be a logical reason for my spine-tingling shock at masturbation. I just can't think of one.
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22 comments:
Hmmm. My reaction to a guy jacking off in public is absolute disgust because it is a private matter, and eventually some really sticky stuff is going to stream out of there and where's it going to go? Masturbation is intimate. That's not the same as something to be ashamed of, but the distinction is a bit tricky. Your story about the little girl masturbating does not bother me so much, because she is a child. Often little boys are interested in their hard-ons, too. Still, it's important to have boundaries so that we all feel comfortable. I don't want to see a stranger's dick! Egads - put that thing away.
Regarding breasts. The following may seem hypoctritical, but I don't think so atall. Breasts are about as natural as you can get. We all have them, even men, who have useless flat plains, but breasts nonetheless. Female breasts secrete no fluids, except milk, and that is food. The only reason to cover one's breasts is because it's goddamn cold without a shirt. The article about illegal breasts is right on: men are selling our tits! The general 'of course' 'that's life' thoughtless acceptance of men needing to jack off to those photos is bizarre to me. Talk about lack of imagination.
So, my opinion is that women's bodies are excellent, people should respect one another's privacy, and Darwinism took a bit of a strange turn in creating the human penis. I've seen my share, I'm cool with that, but I don't wanna see the anonymous dick - no thanks. Breasts, sure; dicks, no. And men selling photos of women's bodies? Degenerates and idiots: the kind of guys who would masturbate into a bush. How's that for feminist philosophy?
I think some of it is the public environment vs. private nature of sex and sexuality in our society. For my own part, while I don't mind minor public displays of affection (hand-holding, hugs, short kisses) between people, I feel uncomfortable around stangers who are making out, let alone engaging in genital action. I feel like I'm intruding on those people, despite the fact that we are in a public space.
I don't mind seeing breasts, because they are only being worn. Sexual contact is very private, though. Encountering sexual behavior is slightly less uncomfortable with children that are young enough to be still learning about the distinctions between public and private behavior, but adults have no such excuse. That's the difference for me between going shirtless and jacking off in public.
I think it could be that masturbation, when problematic in public, is because it's *intentionally* in public. My impression has always been that it's an intentional act of claiming domain, rather than surrendering to an overwhelming urge. That it is usually penis-bearers who engage in this activity tends to reinforce my take on the power aspects of the act.
Lucy and Denise: If it's just an "ick" factor and a matter of privacy, why is public urination not met with the same reaction? It also involves a typically private act with an exposed penis and stuff coming out.
I'm thinking specifically of MY reaction to the two acts, which might be different than others. But I react so strongly to the image of a person masturbating, it's curious to me. I'm uncomfortable around people making-out (even in films), but not nearly to the same extent.
On breast vs penis: If men can be seen to have flatter versions of breasts, could women be seen to have smaller versions of a penis (i.e. the clitorus)? Is a penis less offensive when it's soft and just hanging there? I wonder why breasts are so much more aesthetically pleasing than penises to most people.
On children vs adults: Have you seen "The Squid and the Whale"? It's got a scene in which a boy is masturbating in a school library. I found it exceedingly disturbing. Especially when he wiped his hands on the books. But maybe it's just me who finds children and adults masturbating publically equally disturbing.
I also heartily agree with the article, but I'm still trying to get to the "whys" of my reactions. If we started selling images of hard-ons, would they lose their impact as offensive and become aesthetic because advertisers tell us they're beautiful? Could you imagine a car commercial that had, not a woman in a low-cut dress, but a guy in tight jeans with an obvious rail on talking about how excited his new Volvo makes him. I'd love to see the reaction to that!
Adrien, I think you've made a good point. It makes me think of dogs who hump other dogs as an act of dominance, not an attempt to mate. (I knew of two dogs in which one would hump the other's face when his authority was challenged.) Perhaps the jerk-off in the bushes is suggesting that the topless woman is his, so everyone else back off. That might help explain why it elicits an angry, fearful yet sad reaction in me. And even a child could be construed (by my sub-conscious somehow) that it's making a claim.
Interesting.
I think the key here is that, while something may be fun for a time, nothing in excess is good. Ironically, the more accepting and tolerant we become of formerly taboo things, the more we risk pushing the envelope more with each generation. This is not to say we should not break some chains that have been put on us from prior generations and their thinking. However, at what point do we stop?
There are people in the world, like, say, NAMBLA, who do more than just stretch our thinking, at least in my opinion. The more open we become, the more room we give people of such natures to argue things like, "Is it wrong to sleep with children?" Questions continue from there. And, of course, sexuality is just one of many topics that has such questions, and the answers will forever be subjective and entirely dependent on individuals' past experiences.
On a different note, I know we may scientifically be classified as animals, but does that mean we should act like them? I think to do so, to completely remove morality from society just because we're technically animals, is a cop out and a quick way to demean our truly amazing makeup as humans.
I think in all hard-to-answer questions such as this, the easiest perspective to start with is "Is it healthy?" Masturbation is healthy and normal, but is it healthy and normal in public? No, I don't think so. There are too many social implications, not just on adults, but on children who, as psychology persistently reveals, can be affected for life from being exposed to adult situations (of all natures) before they are old enough to understand them. Look into your own past. I have to wonder if you did not encounter something of a sexual nature when you were young that has led you to have such strong feelings as you have expressed here.
We adults in our adult worlds and adult societies so often forget how we might affect our children. At other times we forget there is some taboo making (*gasp*) that is for our own good, whether we realize it or not. As is the case, I think, with your friend's daughter. What might happen if she unknowingly did that beside a pedophile on the bench of a public park? Horrid thought, I know, but a possibility, and something that might be prevented if her mother does as you did and suggest that is something to be kept in private.
I don't think it's always a matter of repression; it's sometimes sensibility in terms of safety and long-term health. The fact is, whether other cultures are fortunate enough to not view such things sexually (and while I LOVE that thought, I think you'll find those cultures have underground societies that are quite different) or not, many cultures do and will, and we have to be aware of that. Not everything can be about sex. As you say, you should be able to control that urge, and society should not insinuate that such a thing is impossible.
Lelia, Thanks for all your ideas on this! Some thoughts:
I'm not sure we push the envelope with each generation. I think our sexual norms have moved from repressive to liberal and back again over and over throughout history. And deciding to stop it all at x point just because it has to stop somewhere isn't necessarily the best criterion to use. It's pretty arbitrary.
If masturbation is healthy, what makes public masturbation unhealthy? Is viewing adult situations as a child intrinsically harmful or only in hindsight because we tell people they shouldn't have seen it, because we tell them it's shameful. To explain with an analogy, when people claim that divorce destroys children, I always wonder to what extent the stigma of divorce in our society harms the kids, rather than the divorce itself. If we all accepted that people come together then often separate again, then would children be so destroyed? If divorce and public masturbation became normal, would they disturb us so much?
Something from my life that drives me to question my reaction is something my guy told me years ago. He was raised in a very religious home where masturbation was seen as sinful. As a teen, if he touched himself, he'd actually punch himself in the stomach out of self-loathing. He made it two years without masturbating at all as a hormone-laden teenager, but then began questioning some of his church's teachings, and eventually came to terms with his acts formerly seen as sins. Nobody should have to go through that kind of mental torment. With this in mind I wondered, if we really believe it's not a sin, then why does it cause such a negative reaction when viewed publically. I think the church still has us in it's grip.
But I'm still thinking about masturbation as an act of social domination.
On a similar note - even touching ourselves in a non-sexual way is taboo, but to what purpose? I have a mosquito bite on my breast, and it was requested of me (by my guy) that I leave my own kitchen and kids in order to scratch. It's indecent to scratch a boob publically. If a pube gets stuck in my underwear elastic, I'll endure the pain with watering eyes until I can get to a washroom, rather than make a quick grab at my crotch to rectify the situation. But guys adjust themselves all the time. I think there still some sexual repression at work in these parts.
Whatever else is true, the argument cannot be that if X is healthy, then doing X in public should just be fine. Defacating is not just necessary, but it is also healthy. Yet defacating in public would be most inappropriate, though no one need be harmed by it. Sex is healthy, too, but sex in public could be traumatic for little children. And some forms of sexual behavior, though involving mutual consent, are too complicated or ambiguous to be done in public--e.g., certain forms of S & M.
Privacy is not driven simply be shame. It is also an indicator of intimacy.
masturbation is sex. seeing people have sex in public makes me uncomfortable, rightly or wrongly, and masturbation is sex.
even beyond that, a person who is masturbating in public while looking at another person is making that person a part of their sex act, often without the other person's consent. that's why public masturbation makes me angry - if someone is watching me while they jack off, they're making me a sex object and they're including me in something sexual without my permission.
as for the kid, well...again, it's the issue of public sex. there's nothing wrong with kids masturbating - i think they should be taught that sex is healthy - but they should be taught not to impose it on other people.
i do get your point about cultural taboos: if sex wasn't viewed as shameful, would it really be a big deal to see a person masturbating on the bench next to you, or two people going at it on the subway? would we pay about as much attention to it as someone wiping their show or adjusting their coat?
impossible to tell, really.
i am ALL FOR the desexualization of breasts and i am astonished and amazed women in ontario can go about topless. that fucking ROCKS! i get a little peeved every time i see some shlub in ny with his shirt off - because he can do that without repercussion or penalty and i cannot. it just burns my grits, sage!
i look at boobs a lot - sometimes it's sexual, but most of the time it's not. boobs are fascinating, and just plain aesthetically appealing. i look at my own as frequently as possible. :)
Maybe it's my own religious training showing, but I'm thinking in terms of Ecclesiastes: "To everything there is a season, and a time and purpose unto heaven."
There is surely a time for masturbation - I'm sure I can think of one, perhaps many, without much difficulty - but it's never in front of an unwilling audience. (I'm not sure I could do it in front of a willing audience, but that's a different issue entirely.)
Laurence, You're right; a healthy act isn't a measure of its public acceptablity. But it's interesting to me which private acts are appropriate in public and which are not. We can kiss and hug, but a foot massage would be weird. I can grab my guy's ass playfully, but he can't grab my boob. I can dig out the inside of my ear, but not the inside of my nose. I can get my sweaty sock out from under the arch of my foot, but not get the underwear out of my asscrack through another layer of clothes.
Midwesterntransport: "they're including me in something sexual without my permission" I think this is a really good point. Also, you could pull a Gwen Jacobs and just start walking around topless, then take it to a higher and higher court each time you get convicted of indecent exposure. I'm not sure if it would work as well in the states though.
cghill, You've touched on an new aspect, if people are uncomfortable masturbating in front of a partner, to what extent have we erased the idea that it's a shameful act? I think we've just barely rubbed the surface, so to speak.
Could part of it be that someone masturbating in public evokes a sexual feeling in the person watching? Being taught, or believing, that sex/masturbating is a private affair (that it's publically wrong), they could be disgusted with themselves for becoming aroused, and disgusted with the person masturbating in public for causing them to be in the first place.
Like the boy punching himself in the stomach, you become mad at yourself for how you feel, and become mad at the person who made you feel that way.
Or people may feel vulnerable in sexual situations, and watching someone masturbating adds them to the situation. Makes them an unwilling partner. Maybe it doesn't evoke arousal, but evokes vulnerability, and makes them defensive. The idea being "I didn't give you permission to make me feel this way". Which brings me to my next point.
People like to be in control of their feelings. Maybe it's not so much the person masturbating being out of control, as it's causing feelings in the person who sees it, and them then feeling out of control.
Just my passing thoughts.
Pete, That's an interesting perspective. It may very well be part of it too.
My feeling is that anxiety about masturbation in general has lots and lots to do with sexual pleasure itself being taboo. Masturbation brings into relief everything about sex that's uncomfortable, because it's an act of pure indulgence in sensual pleasure that can't be glossed over by asserting that it's an act of connection, loving intimacy, or deep spiritual expression (unless you're Grant Morrison, natch).
It bears pointing out that one of the nastiest comments we can make about a work of art is to say it's masturbatory - wrapping up in one metaphor a whole set of notions about implied self-indulgence, pointlessness, mania, and idiocy.
(I'm also reminded of a blog post I read sometime last year about, IIRC, the blogger's reaction to the assertion that "fanfic is nothing but masturbation"; she said something to the effect that she didn't know whether to me more offended as a fan or as a masturbator.)
The points made upthread about the predatory nature of the Male Gaze are also, I think, very germaine. Several years ago, I was having a discussion with a (feminist) friend about my ambivalent feelings about pornography, despite being a consumer of it. She said to me, "Dan, there would be a problem if you looked at all women the way you'd look at porn, but you don't." A person touching himself while he looks at you is seeing you the same way he'd see porn - a commodity to use as he wishes, and presumably discard after. It's threatening because it denies you both agency and humanity; it sends the message "You are here only for my pleasure."
I wish I had something more coherent than this to add. It's something I've been thinking about since the breast post last week, and deserves much discussion.
Dan, I think that was pretty coherent. Your point complements Midwestern Transport's ideas nicely.
From what Adrien, MDT, and Dan wrote, I think we could call public masturbation to the sight of a topless woman "rape from a distance."
I thought of a scenario in which public masturbation might not offend, and that's in a stage show. There, it would still make me uncomfortable and icky, but not give me the willies like it would if it happened spontaneously on the street somewhere.
Is viewing adult situations as a child intrinsically harmful or only in hindsight because we tell people they shouldn't have seen it, because we tell them it's shameful.
Having been put in this situation as a child, let me make it clear to all that no one had to tell me how to feel uncomfortable or confused or hurt or angry. I didn't grow up and just suddenly get some inclination of "oh, that was wrong," thanks to millions of people telling me that. Do you think you would have felt comfortable seeing an adult--or, even a parent--masturbate around you when you were child? Think anyone would have had to tell you it would be wrong?
Hell, your argument could be used for sexual abuse. A lot of people never KNOW their rape as a child was wrong, they just know they felt uncomfortable, but can't play why. This is usually because they were told constantly by those who preyed on them that it was "okay." Does that mean it's okay, though? Of course not. Again, where would the line be drawn? I don't mean it'd have to be definite, but there would always be (and always will be) people who try to push against the boundaries, for better or worse.
As for the church comment. I'm pretty well a Deist, but I come from an evangelical, conservative Christian family; my grandfather is a retired minister. However, my family never taught that masturbation was a sin. Yet, I had a friend whose family was agnostic, or something akin to it, and she had always been taught that it was wrong. I think it depends on the family and the groups the family surrounds itself with in terms of how they view it. All that said, it doesn't appear that either one of us are living in any crisis over our sexuality, one way or the other. (Although, I'm not there when she's getting down, so, hey, maybe I'm wrong. *laughs*)
On a similar note - even touching ourselves in a non-sexual way is taboo, but to what purpose? I have a mosquito bite on my breast, and it was requested of me (by my guy) that I leave my own kitchen and kids in order to scratch. It's indecent to scratch a boob publically. If a pube gets stuck in my underwear elastic, I'll endure the pain with watering eyes until I can get to a washroom, rather than make a quick grab at my crotch to rectify the situation. But guys adjust themselves all the time. I think there still some sexual repression at work in these parts.
If you feel there's a bit of a double standard, don't let it apply to you. If you disagree with it so much, why allow yourself pain and frustration over it? Just go against the grain.
I mean that honestly. I'm a bit of a broad, I guess, in terms of my thinking. I suppose on the outside I look fairly feminine, but I love crass humor and a plethora of other things that society tells me is taboo for a young lady. But who gives a damn? If you don't agree with it, shrug off society's feelings toward it, and act as you will. No one's going to stop you, though you might get a few eye rolls. But at the same time, while you observe society's different beliefs from your own, don't think society is going to change with you or like you for being different. Culture and society changes very, very slowly and usually with a begrudging attitude.
Your boyfriend sounds a bit uptight! Never met a male who didn't want to see his partner come close to touching her breast, even if it was only to scratch. LOL
Lelia,
I actually approached the sexual abuse question in a post last night because sometime people do think it's okay, then suddenly realize or decide it's wrong.
For the record, I do believe public masturbation is clearly wrong, I'm just exploring the edges of that belief for myself.
On scratching: What I'm wondering is whether or not there's a good reason for our taboos about touching body parts. Is it just where the line begins because it has to start somewhere? If we scratch openly, are we shifting the line of acceptability?
My guy is only uptight around the kids. He'd be fine with me scratching anything in front of him, but doesn't want the children seeing any of that business. It makes me think of a Lauren Becall, Humphrey Bogart movie in which she's rubbing her thigh discretely until he says, "You can go ahead." and then she scratches openly. Maybe the thigh of the 40s is the breast of today. But, as for openly scratching and not caring about offending others, could I scratch my boob or grab my crotch in front of a class at school? Or would that be abusive to my students? (Not that I'm about to, just to clarify!)
A couple of years ago, there was an all-night downtown performance art festival at the Judson Memorial Church (kind of a landmark in the E. Village, known for being Richard Foreman's laboratory, among others). It was, as I recall, the "Magdalene festival;" and as such there were plenty of old-school tributes to whores and goddesses and "dangerous women" and outlaw women and womens' sexuality. As is typical of such events, it was a mixed bag, quality-wise. I went outside a couple of hours into it.
Sitting on the steps was a young unkempt woman with a vacant look in her eyes and her hand down her pants.
At first I thought: oh, is this a part of the performance? how...interesting. um, edgy! is this, like, okay? Pretty soon, though, it became apparent that the woman not only wasn't part of the show, she didn't seem to have any idea that she had an audience at all (drunk, high, crazy...something). Eventually a couple of cops came along and (pretty gently and politely, albeit firmly) escorted the woman away.
I have mulled over that incident a few times since then. I'm still not sure I have any concrete conclusions as to What It All Means, dear.
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I agree with some of the other comments. It seems that public space is defined by restrictions on behaviour. Public space, by its nature, must present a spectrum of behaviour defined as acceptable to the public using the space.
When I am using a public space and am witness to a private act such as masturbation, I feel that someone is trying to take the public space and mek it and everyone in it part of their private domain. The act is a violation of the public space.
If someone were to masturbate in front of me in their home, I could leave and it would still be their home, hteir private space. We have all worked together to create public space. It's not up to the individual to define it.
Private things are reserved for spaces we define as private. Although I can legally be topless where I live, I choose not to do so because I consider my breasts private. I breastfed in public without reservation because eating is not a private act. That my baby was eating superceded the notion of my breast being private.
Where I live, it is legal to go topless province wide but I sense the attempt to redefine what can be public is very local. I also sense the law as being egalitarian but impractical for women on a day-to-day basis. While topless might be O.K. in your yard or on your street, where you are known, riding a crowded subway topless would not be acceptible. Indeed, I think men also find toplessness restricted to certain areas.
I have seen women topless, but always accompanied by other people. most often men. It made me aware of the attitude the women had. They were not simply wearing their breasts. While I think they were willing to endure stares, it seemed they were also prepared for unwanted behaviour, hence the entourage. Thought and planning went into their outing rather than it being a casual reaction to a hot day. They were aware of the unspoken definition of public, I think. This defintion can be very local. Until a thing becomes impractical, it will stand.
Time has released women from many taboos, but I think change has come about when things have become impractical or defy logic. Things like the wearing of corsets, the need to keep ankles covered, restricted career choices became impractical.
Practically speaking, keeping our genitals covered while using public spaces makes great sense in terms of hygeine. The baring of the chest may, ironically, depend on our acceptance of the bare male chest. I think the bare chest may have its day if we can accept chest hair. Think restaurants, bus seats, movie theatres and grocery stores. Once we are comfortable with that, then maybe we can tackle public pubic.
Great site, by the way. Can yo believe I started with the composting toilet? Now here I am at masturbation!
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